8月4日，崔天凯大使应邀出席2020年阿斯彭安全论坛，就中美关系有关问题与阿斯彭战略小组执行主任尼古拉斯·伯恩斯以及美国全国广播公司对外政策首席记者安德利亚·米歇尔进行在线对话，并回答观众提问。

Ambassador Cui Tiankai's Interview at the 2020 Aspen Security Forum

崔天凯大使出席2020年阿斯彭安全论坛实录

Nicholas Burns: You're most welcome here, Ambassador. I'm going to turn this interview over to Andrea Mitchell. But I just make one point that I was beginning to make with Andrea when we were waiting. I think that US-China relations may be at their lowest point, since before President Nixon's opening to China in 1971, 1972. There is great concern in the United States about the Chinese government abrogating its commitments to the people of Hong Kong, concern about the conflict along the border between India and China at the Himalayas, concern about Chinese activities in the South China Sea. You and I have been part of this relationship from a government perspective for many, many decades. It seems to me that we're turning away from the cooperation, the large-scale cooperation of the last 40 years, decidedly towards competition, in the military sense, over economic issues, on 5G. And the question I have for Andrea and you and for your interview is, as we compete with each other and we're certainly competing, can we find a way to cooperate on climate change, on the pandemic and other big global issues?

伯恩斯：崔大使，谨向您致以最热烈的欢迎。在把采访转交给安德利亚·米歇尔之前，我想阐述一点想法。我认为美中关系可能处于1971年、1972年尼克松总统打开中国大门以来的最低点。在美国，人们对中国政府放弃其对香港人民的承诺、印度与中国在喜马拉雅山地区发生边界冲突，以及中国在南海的活动感到非常关切。几十年以来，你和我都在政府中参与美中关系相关工作。在我看来，我们正在脱离近40年来的合作轨道，朝竞争方向迈进，包括在军事、经济、5G问题上。我对安德利亚、您和你们的采访提出的问题是，我们在竞争的同时（我们当然在竞争），能否找到就应对气候变化、疫情和其他重大全球性问题的合作之路？

Andrea Mitchell: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. It's a great privilege and an honor to have you joining us today. And I want to pick up where Ambassador Burns set the table, which is that most people do believe, in both of our countries, that this is the most difficult time, I was going to say, since 1979. But certainly Nick Burns just said, really, since Henry Kissinger's trip in 1971. So is there a way, first, do you agree that this is a perilous situation? And how would you correct it, or do you think it needs to be corrected?

米歇尔：非常感谢。谢谢您，大使先生。我们对您能参加今天的活动深感荣幸。我想从尼克·伯恩斯提出的问题开始对话。我们两国大多数人都确信，现在是最困难的时期。我曾说，这是1979年以来最困难的时期。但伯恩斯刚才说，可以从基辛格博士1971年访华算起，真是这样。是否有途径可以……首先，您同意这是一种危险的形势吗？您认为应如何扭转这种形势，或者您是否认为这种形势应被扭转？

Ambassador Cui: First of all, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to have this conversation. We are at a very critical moment for our relations between China and United States. In a way, we can say it's unprecedented since Dr. Henry Kissinger's visit almost half a century ago. The choices we're making today will shape not only relations between our two great countries, but also the future of the world. So we have to make the right choices. We have to base ourselves on the long-term interests of our two peoples and of the world.

崔大使：首先，非常感谢有机会进行这次交谈。当前中美关系处于非常关键的时刻。某种意义上，可以说这是近半个世纪前基辛格博士访华以来前所未有的。我们今天正在进行的抉择，不仅将真正决定我们两个大国之间的关系，也将塑造世界的未来。因此，我们必须基于我们两国人民和世界的长远利益作出正确抉择。

Andrea Mitchell: A big source of the current tension, from the US perspective and others around the world, is the pandemic. The President has been blaming China for not alerting the World Health Organization soon enough to the human-to-human transmission of COVID-19, and doing more to contain it. How would you respond to that criticism?

米歇尔：从美国和世界其他国家的角度看，造成当前紧张局势的一大原因在于疫情。特朗普总统指责中国未及时向世界卫生组织通报新冠病毒人传人的情况，未能作出足够的努力遏制疫情。您对这一批评如何回应?

Ambassador Cui: I think we have to base ourselves on real facts. The fact is very clear. The timeline is very clear. China is one of the countries that reported such cases first. But now there are increasing reports and information about possible earlier cases elsewhere in the world.

崔大使：我认为，我们必须基于真正的事实。事实非常清楚，时间线非常清楚。中国是最早报告新冠肺炎病例的国家之一，但是现在越来越多的报告和信息显示，世界其他地区可能有更早的病例。

Scientists all over the world are still working very hard on this particular pandemic, on the virus. But we identified a few cases in Wuhan in late December last year. And even for the doctors, people like to call them "whistleblowers", they say they have encountered some cases of pneumonia of unknown cause, which means at the time little was known about this new virus. Very few people, I think nobody in the world knew anything about the new virus. But as soon as we had these cases, we reported to the World Health Organization.

全世界的科学家还在围绕疫情和这种病毒努力工作。去年12月底，我们在武汉发现了几个病例。但即便那些医生――人们喜欢称他们为“吹哨人”――也说，他们遇到了一些不明原因肺炎病例。这表明，当时人们对这种新病毒知之甚少。那时很少有人、世界上甚至没有人对这种新病毒有任何了解。但我们一发现这些病例，立刻就向世卫组织做了报告。

The first report was done on January 3, right after the New Year's Day. So it's just a couple of days. Then the next day, the CDCs, Chinese CDC and US CDC, had their first communication on this particular virus, even before people could give a name to this COVID-19 virus. People were still calling it pneumonia of unknown cause. Then on January 12, as soon as we identified the genome sequence of this virus, we shared it with the WHO and the international community. So everything was done very quickly.

1月3日，新年刚过，我们就进行了首次报告，那时距离最初发现病例仅几天时间。1月4日，中国疾控中心同美国疾控中心就这一病毒进行了首次交流，时间甚至早于新冠病毒正式命名，当时人们仍称其为不明原因肺炎。1月12日，我们在确定新冠病毒的基因序列后，立刻同世卫组织和国际社会分享。可见，每件事做得都非常迅速。

Of course people are still learning more, still trying to learn more about this virus. I don't think we already know everything about this virus. This is a fact. But as soon as we discovered something, we shared it with the international community. This is also the fact. And at that time, when we first reported to the WHO, when we first shared all this information with the international community, you still had single-digit number of cases in the United States.

当然，人们仍在努力对这种病毒有更多认识，我们并未对它了如指掌，这是事实。但只要我们发现些什么，就立刻与国际社会分享，这也是事实。在我们首次向世界卫生组织报告时，在我们首次与国际社会分享所有这些信息时，美国的病例数量只有几个而已。

Andrea Mitchell: That is certainly correct. But did you report human-to-human transmission is the question. Because you did share the DNA, the sequencing, but did you share human-to-human transmission in the most timely way that you could have?

米歇尔：这当然是对的。但问题是，你们报告人传人现象了吗?你们的确分享了病毒基因组序列，但你们尽可能及时地分享人传人的信息了吗？

Ambassador Cui: Yes, indeed, I think this is extremely important for our response to the virus. That's why we sent our national exports to Wuhan, to determine whether this is transmitted among human beings. And once they determined that this is transmitted among human beings, we had Wuhan locked down. Within a couple of days, we locked down the whole city of about 12 million people. So everybody knew that this is transmittable among human beings. And within two or three days, the United States evacuated its consulate from Wuhan. So everyone knew this is very dangerous.

崔大使：当然。这的确对我们及时应对疫情极其重要。这就是为什么我们派我国的专家去武汉，以确定病毒是否存在人传人现象的原因。一旦我们确定了存在人传人现象，我们就对武汉进行了封城。两三天之内，我们就对武汉这座1200万人口的城市进行了封城。这是因为，大家都知道了这是一种能够人传人的传染病。之后两三天，美国撤离了驻武汉总领馆人员。这也表明，大家都知道这个疾病非常危险。

Andrea Mitchell: Just a few months ago when this all started, President Trump was praising President Xi's response. Now it's very different. Are they communicating at all?

米歇尔：几个月前，当疫情刚开始流行时，特朗普总统曾称赞习近平主席应对有力，但现在情况大不相同了。他们之间还有什么交流吗?

Ambassador Cui: They have had two phone calls in the last few months, and people at the lower level, lower than the President's level, have also had their communication. Of course, the two economic teams have been in touch more frequently. And what is even more important is that the scientists of our two countries are working together. Some of the American experts, very well-known professors of public health specialists went to China in very early days. And they also joined the team sent by the WHO to China in February. I think it's very fortunate our scientists are still working together.

崔大使：过去几个月，中美两国元首曾通过两次电话，双方工作层也保持着沟通。当然，两国的经贸团队交流更频繁些。更重要的是，两国科学家在合作。在疫情暴发初期，一些美国专家，公共卫生领域一些非常著名的教授，就去了中国，还加入了世卫组织2月派往中国的专家组。所以，我们很幸运，我们的科学家还在合作。

Andrea Mitchell: Now, more recently, the US has filed charges against a number of researchers and academics, for it says trying to steal COVID vaccine information from US technology companies or universities. And they say it's part of a broader pattern of intellectual theft. Can you respond to that?

米歇尔：最近，美国起诉了一些研究人员和学者，指控他们试图从美国科技公司或大学窃取新冠疫苗信息，并称这是中国大规模盗窃美国知识产权的一部分。您能对此作出回应吗?

Ambassador Cui: The problem nowadays is that very often allegations are made without giving any hard evidence. The international community should really cooperate with each other to develop as soon as possible an effective vaccine, which should be shared by the entire world. That's why President Xi Jinping declared at a special conference of the WHO that if China could develop this vaccine first, we'll make it global public goods.

崔大使：现在的问题是，美方经常在没有给出确凿证据的情况下进行指控。实际上，当务之急是国际社会应真正加强合作，尽早开发出有效的疫苗，让全世界都能使用。为此，习近平主席在世界卫生大会开幕式上宣布，如果中国能率先研制出疫苗，将把它作为全球公共产品。

Andrea Mitchell: Now although Moderna, one of the leading research companies, that is testing vaccines in phase three, has said that the Chinese government-linked hackers have targeted them to steal data.

米歇尔：美国Moderna公司作为领先的研究型公司之一，其研发的疫苗已进入实验的第三阶段。该公司称，与中国政府有关联的黑客试图窃取他们的数据。

Ambassador Cui: The fact is, as early as in March, some of the American companies even came to see me. They asked for cooperation with their Chinese counterpart to develop drugs or vaccines. I think we should encourage scientists of our two countries and other countries to cooperate. If people want to make allegations, they have to show the evidence. It's quite possible that hackers from other countries are trying to infiltrate or attack China's research institutions. This is also possible.

崔大使：事实是，早在今年3月，一些美国公司就来找我。他们请求同中国伙伴合作，研发药物或疫苗。我们应该鼓励两国及其他国家的科学家开展合作。如果有人想提出指控，就必须拿出证据。很可能其他国家的黑客正试图渗透或攻击我们中国的研究机构。这个也是可能的。

Andrea Mitchell: Let's talk about the Houston consulate, where, as you know, it was the first consulate opened back in 1979 by China in our country. So it's a very important foundational consulate. And China has responded by closing the US consulate in Chengdu. Do you think that this will escalate?

米歇尔：我们谈谈中国驻休斯敦总领馆吧。您知道，它是1979年中国在我国开设的首个总领馆，所以具有非常重要的奠基性意义。美方将其关闭后，作为回应，中国关闭了美国驻成都总领馆。您认为形势还会进一步升级吗?

Ambassador Cui: We did not start the whole thing. This is very clear. We certainly want to maintain both consulates. As you said, our consulate in Houston was the first Chinese one in America. It was the outcome of Mr. Deng Xiaoping's visit in early 1979. People just like Texas, like Houston, they like the basketball Rockets, Yao Ming, Texas steak and everything. The consulate has been doing a lot to facilitate exchanges between the two countries, people-to-people contacts, and cultural, sport, educational exchanges, a lot of good things for both countries. So it's really unfortunate. It's so bad for the US side to decide to close our consulate in Houston. Based on the principle of reciprocity in diplomacy, we have to respond. But we certainly don't want to have all this from the very beginning. We certainly don't want to see any escalation.

崔大使：整件事并非由中方挑起，这非常清楚。我们当然希望两个总领馆都能保留。正如您所说，我们在休斯敦的总领馆是中国在美国的第一个总领馆，它的建立是邓小平先生1979年初访美的成果。人们喜欢得克萨斯，喜欢休斯敦，喜欢火箭队和姚明，喜欢得克萨斯牛排，等等。中国驻休斯敦总领馆做了大量工作，促进两国之间的交流，包括人员往来，文化、体育和教育交流，为两国做了许多好事。很不幸的是，美方要求中国关闭驻休斯敦总领馆，这非常糟糕。根据外交对等原则，我们必须作出回应。但我们最初就不希望这一切发生，当然不愿看到事态进一步升级。

Andrea Mitchell:I do have to ask you, though, about the allegation that on a broader scale, if US officials claim that the Houston consulate was a haven for spying, for intellectual property theft. They say that 80% of espionage cases end in China and 60% of trade secret cases end in China, of all the countries in the world. So they are saying that China is more responsible than any other country by far for trade and intellectual property theft.

米歇尔：我确实不得不就更大规模的指控向您提问。美方官员称，休斯敦总领馆是间谍活动和窃取知识产权的“天堂”。他们说，世界各国80%的间谍案和60%的商业窃密活动同中国相关，中国对贸易和知识产权盗窃活动所负责任比任何其他国家都大。

Ambassador Cui: These allegations against our consulate or any of our diplomatic missions here are totally groundless. People cannot assume other people are doing all these things just because they are exactly doing the same thing in other countries. This is the problem. Some people are doing all these things in other countries. But now they are blaming other countries doing such things. We never do these.

崔大使：这些针对我们驻休斯敦总领馆或我们任何外交机构的指控都毫无根据。有些人不能因为他们自己可能在其他国家做这类事情，就假定其他人也在做同样的事情。这是问题所在。但他们现在指责其他国家做类似事情。我们从来不干此类勾当。

Andrea Mitchell: Let me ask you about our top diplomat, the Secretary of State, whom you know well, because he gave a speech at the Nixon Library which is highly symbolic, since President Nixon opened the door to our opening with the People's Republic of China. He said some very harsh things, he said if we bend the knees now, our children's children may be at the mercy of the Chinese Communist Party, whose actions are the primary challenge today in the free world. How do you view this? Is it a direct challenge to the government of China?

米歇尔：让我问您一个有关我们首席外交官，也就是美国国务卿的问题，您应该很了解他。他最近在尼克松图书馆发表了一个演讲，具有很强的象征意义，因为正是尼克松总统开启了美中交往的大门。他说了一些非常强硬的话，称如果我们现在屈服，我们的后代将可能听任中国共产党摆布，中共所作所为是对当今自由世界的首要挑战。您对此怎么看?这是对中国政府的直接挑衅吗？

Ambassador Cui: I have been to the Nixon Library more than once. A few years ago when they had the renovation, they invited me for the reopening. I was there together with Dr. Henry Kissinger and a number of other people. I was very impressed by the Nixon Library. By the way, I have been to a number of presidential libraries here. They are, all of them, are very unique. But I think if we have a close look at the history of our relations since President Nixon's visit to China, or since Dr. Kissinger visit to China, several things are quite clear:

崔大使：我不只一次去过尼克松图书馆。几年前，尼克松图书馆修缮竣工后，我应邀同基辛格博士及其他一些人共同出席了重新开放仪式。尼克松图书馆给我留下了深刻印象。顺便说一句，我曾参观过好几个美国总统图书馆，感到每一个都非常独特。我认为，如果我们认真回顾尼克松总统访华或基辛格博士访华以来的中美关系历史，有几点是非常清楚的。

First, the normalization of relations between our two countries and the growth of this relationship over the decades has served the interests of both countries and the world very well. It's quite clear that all of us are still enjoying the positive outcome, the benefits of the growth of this relationship. Nobody can really deny this.

首先，我们两国关系正常化，以及过去几十年来两国关系的发展，符合两国和世界的利益。非常清楚的是，我们所有各方仍在从中美关系的积极发展成果中获益。这一点没人能够否认。

Number two, our two countries, of course, are very different in terms of historical heritage, culture, economic development, and political system, and so on and so forth. These differences will be there, maybe for quite a long time to come. But they should not be seen as barriers for closer relations between us, they should be seen as opportunities, possibilities for mutual learning, for cooperation.

第二，中美在历史、文化、经济发展和政治制度等方面存在较大差异，且这些差异可能会在相当长时间内存在，但不应被视为我们之间建立更密切关系的障碍，它们恰恰为双方相互借鉴与合作提供了机会和可能。

To be fair, over the last few decades, we have learned many things from the United States. There are still things we have not learned from the US, and things I think we should never learn from the United States, such as obsession with global dominance. We are two different countries, but we have to work together. We have to understand we are living in the same world. We are living in this small global village. There are so many global challenges we share. Neither of our countries can really handle all these things all by itself. Nick just mentioned climate change and terrorism, and so many natural disasters. Both peoples have aspirations for a better life. If our two countries can cooperate with each other, it will enable us to meet our people's needs even better. So this is the choice we have to make, cooperation rather than confrontation.

坦率讲，过去几十年，我们从美国学到了很多东西。有些东西我们没有学，也有些东西我们永远不能向美国学，比如执迷于全球霸权。我们是两个不同的国家，但必须合作。我们生活在同一个世界、同一个小“地球村”里，面临许多共同的全球性挑战，任何国家都无法真正单独应对。例如，尼克刚才提到气候变化，还有恐怖主义和层出不穷的自然灾害。我们两国人民都向往美好生活，如果双方能够合作，就能更好地满足人民的需要。因此，这是我们必须作出的抉择，应当合作而不是对抗。

Andrea Mitchell: A Chinese foreign policy expert in Beijing called Pompeo speech "a new cold war declaration of the United States". Is that your view that this is a declaration of a new cold war by the Secretary of State?

米歇尔：北京的一位中国外交政策专家称，蓬佩奥的演讲是美国对中国发动“新冷战”的宣言。您认为这是美国国务卿发动“新冷战”的宣言吗？

Ambassador Cui: I don't know why people like the term "Cold War" so much. The correct lesson we should learn from past history is that such a cold war serves nobody's real interest. Today we are in the 21st century. Why should we allow history to repeat? Why should we repeat what happened in the last century when we are faced with so many new challenges, global challenges? I don't think a new cold war would serve anybody's interests or will give us any solution to the problem.

崔大使：我们应该从过去历史中汲取的教训是，冷战不符合任何一方的真正利益。今天我们身处21世纪，为什么要让历史重演？面对如此多的新的全球性挑战，我们为什么要让上世纪发生的事情重演？“新冷战”不符合任何人的利益，无法为我们提供解决问题的任何方案。

Andrea Mitchell: Is there a way to dial down the rhetoric as long as you speak of global dominance, the President speaks of the "China Flu"? Those are harsh words.

米歇尔：有什么办法能降低调门吗？您刚才提到全球霸权，特朗普总统谈论“中国流感”，这些都是刺耳的话。

Ambassador Cui: It's certainly wrong to have such stigma. And the virus, as defined by the World Health Organization, is COVID19. The WHO has a rule that the name of any such viruses should not be linked with any particular place, people or ethnic group, or even a particular animal. This is an international rule I think all of us should follow. As for global dominance, China certainly has no intention to seek global dominance, but some people here in this country talk about it so often. It seems to me that there is an obsession with it.

崔大使：进行污名化当然是错误的。这种病毒被世卫组织定名为“COVID-19”（2019冠状病毒）。世卫组织有一个规则，就是任何病毒的名称都不应同任何特定的人、族群或动物相关联。这是国际规则，我们所有人都应该遵守。至于全球霸权，中国当然无意谋求全球霸权。但在美国，人们如此热衷于谈论这个话题，让我觉得似乎对此存在执念。

Andrea Mitchell: How do you interpret global dominance? Is it the phrase "America first", or what's your sense of what global dominance means, as you see the United States?

米歇尔：您如何解读“全球霸权”?是指“美国优先”吗？或者，您观察美国时，如何理解“全球霸权”意味着什么？

Ambassador Cui: This is a very good question. Those who are seeking global dominance should give us an interpretation. I don't think anybody should try to do that.

崔大使：这是一个非常好的问题。那些寻求全球霸权的人应该给我们一个解释。我认为，任何人都不应该试图做（寻求霸权）这件事。

Andrea Mitchell: I want to ask you about the new law in Hong Kong, which the United States and British officials have criticized as well as others. China is now delaying Hong Kong's election that was to be held on September 6 for a year. Couldn't the election be held safely despite the pandemic? Why delay the election for a year? And can you assure residents of Hong Kong and the world that there will be elections, democratic elections in Hong Kong?

米歇尔：我想问您一个关于香港新法律的问题，美国、英国以及其他国家官员都对此提出了批评。香港立法会选举原定于9月6日举行，现在中国决定将其推迟一年。难道发生疫情就不能安全举行选举吗?为什么选举要推迟一年?您能否向香港市民和世界人民保证，香港将会举行民主选举?

Ambassador Cui: The decision to delay election in Hong Kong was made by the Hong Kong government, and the reason is the pandemic. Because in recent days, people see a significant resurgence of the confirmed cases. This is very alarming. The Hong Kong SAR government decided that if the election goes as planned, the risk, the danger of the pandemic spreading even wider will be very serious. Actually in other parts of the world, maybe dozens of countries or regions have decided to somehow postpone their elections or events like this.

崔大使：推迟香港立法会选举的决定是由香港特区政府作出的，原因就是疫情。近些天，人们看到香港疫情反弹十分严重，形势令人担忧。香港特区政府认为，如果按期举行选举，存在疫情进一步扩散的重大风险。实际上，在世界其他地方，也有几十个国家或地区决定以某种方式推迟选举或类似活动。

As for the new law, the National Security Law in Hong Kong, by definition, it is about national security. Actually, Hong Kong should have enacted its own law for national security as provided for by the Basic Law of Hong Kong. But 23 years have passed since Hong Kong returned to China, and the law of national security is still not there. Its absence has led to a lot of serious consequences. People see rising violence in Hong Kong. The city is quite destabilized. People feel it's no longer a very safe place to live or do business. And of course, the absence of this law has hurt China's national security interests, and also hurt the safety and security of the people both in the mainland and in Hong Kong of China. It is also hurting the interests of Hong Kong's international economic partners.

至于香港的新法律，也就是香港国安法，顾名思义，是关于国家安全的法律。实际上，根据香港特别行政区基本法，香港本应自行制定国安法。香港回归祖国23年来，国安法一直没有出台，这一空白已经导致许多严重后果。人们看到香港的暴力事件不断上升，城市稳定受到极大破坏。人们感到香港不再是一个适合居住或经商的安全之地。缺少这一法律损害中国的国家安全利益，损害中国内地和香港民众的安全，以及香港的国际经济伙伴的利益。

In a sense, we were forced to enact this law, so that as there's better guarantee for Hong Kong's stability. So the rising violence in Hong Kong could be stopped. Everybody could have a safer environment, a safer place to live. Hong Kong could continue to be an international financial, trading and transportation center. And the system, the policy of "One Country Two Systems" will continue.

在某种意义上，我们是被迫制定这一法律，这样香港的稳定能有更好的保障，可以更有效制止不断上升的暴力，让每个人都拥有更安全的环境，有更安全的地方居住，使香港可以继续作为国际金融、贸易和交通运输中心正常运转，继续执行“一国两制”政策。

Andrea Mitchell: Of course, the Hong Kong government that delayed the election is hardly independent from Beijing. The people who are invested in democracy in Hong Kong want the election and the people who want a stable economic base in Hong Kong around the world want elections and a stable democracy. Today China has issued arrest warrants for six pro-democracy activists, including one who was an American citizen. And of course the well-known Nathan Law, who is already in the UK. What actions were they taking that threatened the stability in Hong Kong?

米歇尔：香港政府很难独立于北京作出推迟选举的决定。在香港，为民主进行了投入的人们想要选举；世界各地希望香港有稳定经济基础的人，也想要选举和稳定的民主。今天中国对六位民主人士发出了逮捕令，其中一位是美国公民，还有著名的Nathan Law（罗冠聪），他已经在英国了。他们采取了哪些威胁香港稳定的行动?

Ambassador Cui: I don't think that people should make the distinction between what they call "democracy" and "anti-democracy". Actually all these law enforcement actions are taken according to the law. If anyone violates the law, they should be punished. That's it. It doesn't matter what kind of political views they might have. Nobody should violate the law.

崔大使：不应该进行所谓“民主”和“反民主”的区分。实际上，所有这些执法行动都是依法进行的。任何人违反了法律都应该受到惩罚，事情就是这样。不管有什么样的政治观点，谁都不应该违反法律。

Andrea Mitchell: I want to ask you about TikTok. The President was talking about banning it. Now it is apparently possibly going to be purchased by Microsoft, the American entity of TikTok. Given China's law and China's ability, Beijing's ability to demand that Chinese corporations can retrieve data from any of these companies, can you understand why President Trump and the US government want to make sure that if TikTok operates here in the US, Beijing will not be able to retrieve and get any data from US citizens?

米歇尔：我想问个有关TikTok的问题。特朗普总统说要禁止它，现在它很可能被微软收购。根据中国的法律和能力，北京可以要求从任何这样的中国公司获取数据信息。基于此，您能理解为什么特朗普总统和美国政府要确保TikTok在美国运营时北京不能获取任何有关美国公民的数据信息吗？

Ambassador Cui: I don't think there's an evidence that any company is giving such information to the Chinese government. People make these allegations, but they never show any evidence. Very often we hear complaints here that we don't give a level playing field to American companies. But more and more, I believe we should complain Chinese companies are not having a level playing field here. There is such a degree of political intervention, government intervention into the market. There's such a discrimination against Chinese company. These companies are just private companies.

崔大使：没有证据表明，任何公司向中国政府提供了这样的信息。有人进行这样的指责，但从来没有给出任何证据。我们在这儿经常听到有人抱怨中国没有给美国公司提供公平竞争环境。但我越来越深信，我们更应该抱怨中国企业在美国没有公平竞争环境。这里的政治干预、政府对市场的介入程度是如此之高，对中国企业的歧视是如此之深。而这些公司不过是民营企业。

Tt's not fair to make such allegations without giving any evidence and to accuse China of not giving American companies a level playing field while at the same time they themselves are denying Chinese companies such a level playing field. This is extremely unfair.

美方一方面毫无根据地进行指控，指责中国没有给美国企业提供平等竞争环境，另一方面自己拒绝为中国公司提供公平竞争环境，这种做法极其不公平。

Andrea Mitchell: Despite all these tensions, you alluded to the fact that there are still conversations at lower levels on economic issues. Is the trade deal going to go forward? Do you still see that as in China's interests and obviously, we have to see whether it is still in the US interest. Would you think that is now also in peril?

米歇尔：尽管双方关系出现紧张，您提到，双方仍在工作层面就经济问题保持着对话。美中经贸协议还会继续下去吗？您仍然认为该协议符合中方利益吗？显然，美方不得不衡量该协议是否仍然符合自身利益。您认为这个协议现在也处境危险吗？

Ambassador Cui: We signed the phase one trade deal in January. As far as I know, the two economic teams have been in contact with each other at various levels. And we are making good progress. For instance, what China committed to do in the first four months for the implementation of this trade agreement. We agreed to do 50 items. We have done all of them in the last four months. And we are still purchasing American products, including agricultural products. The pandemic is hindering the normal trade flows. This is also the reality. But we are doing our best to overcome the current difficulties to keep the trade flow, and to implement this trade agreement as effectively as possible.

崔大使：今年1月中美签署第一阶段经贸协议后，双方经贸团队一直在不同级别上保持着沟通，协议执行取得积极进展。比如，中方承诺在执行协议的头4个月内做的50项工作已全部完成。我们还在继续购买美国农产品等商品。疫情影响了正常的贸易往来，这也是现实。中方正在尽最大努力克服当前困难，保持贸易流通，尽可能有效执行协议。

Andrea Mitchell: And I want to ask you about military tensions. The US says, China is being aggressive by claiming areas in the South China Sea that are international waters, or do you see the US and China moving more closely to some kind of a military confrontation?

米歇尔：我想提一个关于军事紧张的问题。美方称，中方在南海主张权益的区域是国际海域，这是侵略性行径。您认为美中是否正越来越接近发生某种形式的军事冲突？

Ambassador Cui: There's a long history behind the situation in the South China Sea. Before the 1970s or 1960s, actually there was no territorial dispute in the region. And some of the claimant countries put forward that claim starting from the 1960s or 1970s. We have our historical claim and we have strong historical and legal support for our claims, but still we are ready to negotiate with other countries concerned for a peaceful solution to the disputes.

崔大使：南海形势有很长的历史轨迹。实际上，上世纪70或60年代前，这个地区不存在领土争议。但从上世纪60或70年代开始，一些国家提出主权声索。南海诸岛自古以来就是中国的领土，中方对此有充分的历史和法理依据。尽管如此，我们仍愿与其他相关国家通过协商寻求和平解决争端的办法。

That's why we are working with the ASEAN countries over the years. I myself worked for quite a few years with the ASEAN countries on drawing up the Declaration of Conduct for the parties concerned. Now we are working on the code of conduct between China and ASEAN countries, and we are making good progress. We always believe that any territorial disputes shall be resolved through negotiations by the parties directly concerned. And we certainly aim to have a diplomatic solution, a negotiated solution. This is our commitment. It's not changing.

这些年来，我们一直同东盟国家就此共同努力。我本人曾与东盟国家伙伴合作多年，参与起草《南海各方行为宣言》。现在中方正同东盟国家一道制定《南海行为准则》，并已取得积极进展。我们始终相信，任何领土争端均应通过有关直接当事方谈判协商解决，致力于寻求外交解决办法。这是我们的承诺，没有改变。

In the meantime, we should really work together to maintain stability of the region, and all of these sea lanes are extremely important for the Chinese economy. A large portion of our imports and exports have to go through these sea lanes. So we really have high stakes in the safety and security of navigation. So if these things are left to the countries concerned to work out, the situation would be much better. The problem is the intensifying US military activities in the region. The US is sending more and more warships, military airplanes more frequently to the region. This is really raising the risks of any conflicts or confrontation.

同时，我们确实应该共同努力维护地区稳定。这里的所有航道对中国经济都极其重要，我们的大量进出口贸易都必须经过这些航道，所以在确保航行安全方面有重大利益。如果这些问题由地区有关国家自行解决，形势将好得多。问题在于，美国在南海的军事活动不断加剧，派遣越来越多的舰机，活动越来越频密，这正在增加发生摩擦和冲突的风险。

Andrea Mitchell: The President and Secretary Pompeo talked about trying to engage China in a trilateral arms control agreement with Russia and the United States. It's one of the reasons they say they withdrew from the INF Treaty that Russia was cheating, and it was more important to negotiate with China as well. Is there any sense that China would be interested in negotiating missile limits in an agreement with Russia and the United States?

米歇尔：特朗普总统和蓬佩奥国务卿曾谈到，试图让中国与俄罗斯和美国一起开展三边军控谈判。他们称，美国退出《中导条约》，原因之一是俄罗斯的欺骗行为，另外更重要的是与中国谈判。中国会对与俄罗斯和美国达成协议、谈判确定导弹限制感兴趣吗？

Ambassador Cui: There are now very important negotiations between the US and Russia on some of the existing treaties between those countries. These treaties are extremely important for international strategic stability. We hope these treaties could continue. But I don't know what is happening between the US and Russia. Maybe we should, I do hope we could have a reason to be optimistic, but I don't know. We just pray that they will continue these treaties and keep the international strategic stability.

崔大使：美国和俄罗斯正就现有协议相关问题进行重要谈判，这对国际战略稳定极其重要，希望相关协议能够延期。但我不知道美俄之间的谈判具体进展如何，也许我们应该――我确实希望――有理由保持乐观，但我不知道。我们只是祈愿美俄能将协议延期，以维护国际战略稳定。

All over the world, the United States and Russia have the largest nuclear arsenal. This is known by everybody. This is international consensus. So they should take the lead in international nuclear disarmament. Hopefully they could show us leadership. China has a very small amount of nuclear weapons. It's not at the same level. We are far behind the US and Russia. I still remember some of my colleagues dealing with disarmament issue, they asked a very good question. They want to know whether the US is ready to reduce its arsenal to the size of China's, then we can start real negotiation. I hope we could be given a very convincing answer.

美国和俄罗斯拥有世界最大的核武器库，每个人都知道这一点，这是国际共识。所以，美俄应该率先在国际上进行核裁军。希望他们能够向我们展示领导作用。中国拥有非常少量的核武器，同美俄不在同一个级别，要远远落后。我的一些参与裁军事务的同事提了一个很好的问题，他们想知道美国是否愿意将其核武库降至中国的水平，到那时我们就可以开始真正的谈判。我希望我们能够得到一个非常有说服力的回答。

Andrea Mitchell: I want also ask you about the situation with the Uyghurs, because we hear devastating reports of what has happened with the people there. Tell the world why China feels threatened by this muslim minority who have been imprisoned, tortured, slaughtered in large numbers, according to reliable human rights activists.

米歇尔：我想再问您一个关于维吾尔人的问题，因为我们听到一些关于他们的令人震惊的报道。请您告诉世界，为什么中国感到被这个穆斯林少数民族所威胁？据可靠人权活动人士的消息，大量维吾尔人被囚禁、虐待和屠杀。

Ambassador Cui: The fact is the people in Xinjiang, all the ethnic groups, no matter what ethnic group they belong to, the people there were threatened by rising terrorist and extremist activities. In recent years, until quite recently, there were hundreds, even thousands of such terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people were hurt or even killed. So the people there were really threatened. We have to take measures to stop the spread and the threat of terrorist activities. Some of these groups are linked to ISIS. They were also trying to spread extremist ideas. So people's safety and security were really threatened. Thanks to the measures that have been taken over the last few years, for the last three years and more, there has been no terrorist attack in Xinjiang. People are living in a much safer environment. People can really enjoy good life. This is happening to all the people there without any distinction between the ethnic groups.

崔大使：事实是，新疆各族人民，无论哪个民族，都长期受到恐怖主义和极端主义活动的威胁。近年来，新疆发生了数以百计甚至数以千计此类恐怖袭击，成千上万的无辜民众受到伤害甚至被杀。那里的人民受到了真正的威胁，我们必须采取措施制止恐怖活动的蔓延和威胁。其中一些恐怖组织与“伊斯兰国（ISIS）”有关，他们试图传播极端主义思想。由于过去几年采取了措施，过去3年多新疆没有再发生此类恐怖袭击事件，人们生活在一个安全得多的环境中，可以真正享受美好生活。这种情况发生在所有民众身上，没有民族之分。

Andrea Mitchell: According to the United Nations, more than two million people there, Ambassador, are held in detention camps.

米歇尔：大使先生，根据联合国数据，那里有超过200万人被关在拘禁营里。

Ambassador Cui: No, this is not United Nations figure. This figure is fabricated by somebody else, certainly not the United Nations. It's very clear. We have invited, over the last years, we have invited UN officials, foreign diplomats, journalists (to Xinjiang), many of them from muslim countries. And none of them supported such claims.

崔大使：不，这不是联合国的数字。这个数字是其他人捏造的，肯定不是联合国的数字，这是很清楚的。过去的几年中，我们邀请了联合国官员、外国外交官、新闻记者（去新疆）考察，其中许多人来自穆斯林国家。他们中间没有任何人支持这种说法。

Andrea Mitchell: So you are saying there are not millions of people in detention camps.

米歇尔：您是说那里没有数以百万计的人关在拘禁营里吗？

Ambassador Cui: There is no such a thing. I was there in April last year. I had a personal visit there. I even visited one of these training centers. I met people, talked to the people there, the Uyghur people. I even met a young Uyghur couple who opened a restaurant in one of these training centers and were making good money.

崔大使：没有这样的事情。我本人去年4月去新疆考察，参观了其中一个培训中心。我在那里见了一些维吾尔族人，并与他们交谈。我遇到了一对年轻的维吾尔族夫妇，他们在其中一个培训中心开设了一家餐厅，生意很好。

Andrea Mitchell: Obviously, we'll have to do more work on that. But I know that this is an almost universally held criticism of China. And it's something that the world really needs to have more answers to.

米歇尔：显然，我们必须对此多做些功课。但我知道，这几乎是对中国的普遍批评，这是世界真正需要更多答案的事情。

Ambassador Cui: Well, Madam, with all due respect, I very often hear people in this country say this is something universal. But when they say universal, it's mainly the United States and a couple of European countries. If you talk about anything universal, you have to consider China itself has 20% of the global population. If you count in countries like India, African and Latin American countries, the majority of the global population is very often not included in the so-called universality (that is often referred to in this country).

崔大使：恕我直言，我经常在这个国家听到所谓这是一个“普遍性”的事情的说法。但是，当他们说“普遍性”的时候，主要指的只是美国和少数几个欧洲国家。如果要谈论任何普遍性的东西，就必须考虑中国这样一个国家就占全球人口的20％。如果再算上印度、非洲和拉丁美洲等国家，那么（这里常说的）所谓“普遍性”通常并不包括全球大多数人口。

Andrea Mitchell: I want to get back to the relationship between President Trump and President Xi, because we saw them at Mar-a-Lago. We saw the President's grandchildren singing in mandarin to him back in 2017. It's a relationship that even through January and February of this year, the President was praising President Xi. How do we get to the point of him talking with racial epithets like "Kung flu" and also talking about the "China flu". Why do you think he is blaming all of this on China?

米歇尔：我想回到特朗普总统与习近平主席之间关系的问题上。我们看到他们在海湖庄园会晤，看到2017年特朗普总统的孙辈用中文演唱歌曲。这种关系一直持续到今年1月和2月，特朗普总统当时还在赞扬习主席。之后他却开始说“功夫流感”这样的种族主义用语，还在说“中国流感”，我们是怎么走到这一步的？您认为他为什么把这些都归咎于中国？

Ambassador Cui: I don't think there is something for me to explain. But I can tell you, I have been present at most of their meetings, Mar-a-Lago, Beijing, and Argentina, Buenos Aires, and Osaka last year. The meetings between the Presidents have provided important guidance to the overall relations. All these meetings were quite positive. I would certainly look forward to more interactions like this, an effective working relationship between the two governments, between the two leaders.

崔大使：这不是应该由我解释的事情。我参加了两国元首的大多数会晤，包括在海湖庄园、北京和布宜诺斯艾利斯，以及去年在大阪。两国元首会晤为两国整体关系提供了重要指引，所有这些会晤都是非常积极的。我当然期待有更多这样的互动，期待两国元首和两国政府间保持有效的工作关系。

Andrea Mitchell: Is there any chance of an overture? Would there be any outreach from China to Washington, or should Washington reach out to China? Who will take the first step at the head of state level?

米歇尔：有没有什么机会可以做一些尝试？中方有没有可能主动联系华盛顿，还是华盛顿应该主动联系中方？在元首层面谁应该迈出第一步？

Ambassador Cui: This is a job we diplomats really have to do. My good friend, Ambassador Branstad in Beijing, I myself here in Washington, we will continue to do our best.

崔大使：这是我们外交官真正必须做的工作。我的好朋友布兰斯塔德大使在北京，我本人在华盛顿，我们将继续竭尽全力。

Andrea Mitchell: Nick Burns raised the issue of cooperation on global warming, on climate change, perhaps the greatest threat facing the world, certainly the greatest threat facing the world. Can that progress be made as long as the United States does not rejoin the Paris Accord?

米歇尔：尼克•伯恩斯提出就全球变暖、气候变化开展合作的问题，这也许是世界面临的最大威胁，肯定是世界面临的最大威胁。如果美国不重新加入《巴黎协定》，合作能取得进展吗？

Ambassador Cui: Whether the US will come back to the Paris Accord, this is a decision up to the US to make. But it's quite clear, climate change is a very good example that we are living in a very different world. We are living in what we call a globalized world. Whether you like it or not, this is a reality. And we have to work together to respond to all these global challenges. No country can handle all these things by itself. We have to work together. But for China and the United States, since we are the two largest economies in the world, since we are permanent members of the UN Security Council, we do share special responsibility, not only to our own people, but also to the international community, that we should take the lead in promoting international cooperation to confront all these challenges. We're certainly willing and ready to do all this.

崔大使：美国是否会重返《巴黎协定》，这是美国自己应该做出的决定。但是很显然，气候变化是能说明我们生活在一个非常不同的世界中的好例子。我们生活在一个全球化的世界中，无论你喜欢与否，这就是现实。我们必须共同努力，应对所有这些全球性挑战。没有任何国家能够独自应对所有这些事情，我们必须合作。对于中美而言，因为我们是世界最大的两个经济体，因为我们是联合国安理会常任理事国，我们确实共同承担着特殊责任，不仅是对我们两国的人民，而且是对国际社会，我们应该在推动应对所有这些挑战的国际合作中发挥带头作用。我们当然愿意做这样的事情。

Andrea Mitchell: Returning to Hong Kong for a moment, I just wanted to ask you, will you commit to holding an election in Hong Kong a year from now?

米歇尔：再回到香港问题，我只是想问您，您能承诺香港在一年后举行选举吗？

Ambassador Cui: This decision has to be made by the Hong Kong SAR government in accordance with the Basic Law and its own laws. It's not up for me to say.

崔大使：这应由香港特区政府根据基本法以及香港自己的法律作出决定，不是我能回答的问题。

Andrea Mitchell: Are they really able to make that decision without Beijing's approval?

米歇尔：他们真能在未经北京批准的情况下作出决定吗？

Ambassador Cui: You see, Hong Kong has a high degree of autonomy......

崔大使：你知道，香港享有高度自治权……

Andrea Mitchell: Well, it did, but it no longer does. According to most people ……

米歇尔：是的，香港过去有，但现在不再有了。根据大多数人……

Ambassador Cui: I think people have to be careful. High degree of autonomy is different from total independence. Hong Kong is not a sovereign country. It's part of China, it's a special administrative region of China. So Hong Kong's governance is based on, first of all, the Constitution of China, then also on the Basic Law of Hong Kong. Actually the Constitution of China and the Basic Law of Hong Kong provide the real guarantee for this "One Country Two Systems".

崔大使：人们必须注意，高度自治不同于完全独立。香港不是一个主权国家，它是中国的一部分，是中国的一个特别行政区。因此，香港的治理首先以中国宪法为基础，也以香港基本法为基础。实际上，中国宪法和香港基本法为“一国两制”提供了真正的保障。

Andrea Mitchell: But under "One Country Two Systems" which we understand, can the Hong Kong government go ahead and hold an election if it does not have independence, if Beijing does not want it to?

米歇尔：但是，在我们理解的“一国两制”下，如果香港没有独立地位，如果北京不愿意，香港政府可以继续举行选举吗？

Ambassador Cui: No, the decision to delay was based on the assessment of the situation of the pandemic. This is the only reason. They cannot take the risk that more and more people would be affected and things could get out of control. The risk is just too high for them.

崔大使：推迟选举的决定是基于对疫情形势的评估作出的，这是唯一原因。他们不能冒险，否则越来越多人会受到影响，疫情就会失控。这个风险对他们来说太高了。

Andrea Mitchell: I know that there are a lot of people who want to ask questions as well of you. And I don't want to take all of your time, Ambassador. You've been very, very generous with your time with us today.

米歇尔：我知道还有很多人也想提问题，我不想占用您所有时间。大使先生，今天您非常、非常慷慨地给予了我们这么长的时间。

Question: Thank you very much. And thank you, Ms. Mitchell and Mr. Ambassador. Unrelated to the discussion so far, I'd like to talk about the Arctic. And I'd like to ask you about China's interest in the Arctic. Such that China has felt the need to declare itself, without an Arctic border, to declare itself a near Arctic power. So my question for you is what is the impetus for this great interest in the Arctic? Is it mineral acquisition? Is it transportation? Is it strategic with respect to the movement of potential military assets? Is it to keep up with your friends, the Russians, or even with us? So I put this to you as an open question. Thank you very much.

观众一:非常感谢，谢谢米歇尔女士和大使先生。我要提的问题与刚才的讨论无关，我想谈一谈北极，想问一下有关中国对北极的兴趣。中国不是北极国家，但认为需要宣布自己是“近北极国家”。所以我提给您的问题是，中国对北极产生这么大兴趣的动因是什么？是想获得矿产资源，还是与交通运输相关？是战略性的，与潜在军事资源的移动相关吗？还是为了赶上你们的友好国家俄罗斯，甚至是我们？我把这个作为一个开放性问题提给您。非常感谢！

Ambassador Cui: I'm not expert on these issues. But China is the second largest economy in the world. We certainly have a lot of interests in the world. And we certainly want to make contribution to the preservation and utilization of any part of the Arctic. We want to make our contribution. We want to work with other countries. We have no military intentions for these places. We want to contribute to peaceful use and preservation of the environment there. And we are ready to talk with other countries. We know the United States and countries like Russia have very strong interest. Then we should all talk to each other and should work together to make sure nothing wrong is done to that part of the globe.

崔大使: 在这些问题上我不是专家。中国是世界第二大经济体，我们当然在世界上有很多利益，希望为北极各部分的保护和利用作出贡献。我们希望作出我们的贡献，愿意与其他国家合作，对这些地方没有军事意图。我们想为那里的和平利用以及环境保护作出贡献，愿意与其他国家对话。我们知道，美国以及俄罗斯等国也有非常强烈的兴趣。我们应该交流合作，避免在地球的那个部分做任何错误的事情。

Question: Thank you very much. So my question is with regards to the policy of engagement. So the discussion in the United States holds essentially that engagement is dying and seems to me that in lieu of an explicit policy between the two countries, we will see the security issues dominating in security there, and then we see the downward spiral. So my question to you is, what do you see as an engagement 2.0 policy? What kind of steps we're trying to be willing to take? What kind of steps do you think the US would need to take? I think if we look at the USTR, the trade agreement, we have phase one already completed, seems to me that phase two might be a big step in the right direction. What are your thoughts on that? Thank you.

观众二: 非常感谢。我的问题与接触政策有关。实际上，美国国内的讨论认为，接触政策正在死亡。我感到，我们两国关系明显由安全问题主导，呈现螺旋式下降。所以，我向您提出的问题是，您认为什么可以作为“接触政策2.0版”？我们将尝试和愿意采取什么措施？您认为美方需要采取什么步骤？如果看一看美国贸易代表和贸易协议，我们已经达成了第一阶段协议。在我看来，第二阶段协议将是朝正确方向迈出的一大步。您对上述问题有什么想法？谢谢！

Ambassador Cui: There's a clear need for our two countries to have all-round engagement with each other, trade, finance, environment, security issues, international and regional conflicts, all these issues. Because we are the two largest economies in the world. We are permanent members of the UN Security Council. We do share interests and responsibilities.

崔大使：我们两国开展全面接触的需要显而易见，包括在贸易、金融、环境、安全以及国际和地区热点等所有问题上。因为我们是世界上两个最大的经济体，是联合国安理会常任理事国。我们确实有共同的利益和责任。

Meanwhile, what we have to do more and better now is to build mutual confidence, to aim at a much better mutual understanding of each other's intention and not allow any miscalculation or misperceptions to hijack the relations. Without such mutual understanding, our cooperation or engagement or coordination in any area would be very difficult, even for the trade agreement. If we really want to make progress in the implementation of the trade agreement, we have to enhance mutual understanding. And we have to enhance mutual respect, and try to have mutual accommodation. You see, (the relation) between two countries is very similar to relation between two persons. If you don't respect each other, if you don't understand each other, how can you work with each other? If we could have that basis, then the possibilities and the opportunities for our two countries to cooperate on so many issues are just there.

同时我认为，我们现在必须做得更多、更好的事情是建立相互信任，致力于更好地理解彼此的意图，避免两国关系被任何误解误判所绑架。没有这种相互理解，我们在任何领域的合作、接触或协调都将非常困难，哪怕是在经贸协议方面。如果我们真想在经贸协议执行方面取得进展，就必须增进相互理解。我们也必须增进相互尊重，并设法相互妥协。两个国家之间的（关系）与两个人之间的关系非常相似。如果不能互相尊重和理解，怎么可能合作？如果我们有这个基础，我们两国在许多问题上开展合作的潜能和机会就显而易见。

Question: Just follow up a little bit on the previous question. Is there going to be specifically a meeting on August 15, my colleagues are reporting at the Wall Street Journal, to re-evaluate the trade agreement? And if so, what is China's position on that? Thank you very much.

观众三：我想跟进刚才的问题。据《华尔街日报》报道，美中将在8月15日召开一次专门会议重新评估贸易协议，是这样吗？如果是这样，中方对此持何立场？非常感谢。

Ambassador Cui: Thank you for your question. Yes. The original plan was for the two teams to meet six months from the starting of the implementation of the phase one trade agreement. The two teams are still talking to each other. But probably they will not be able to have a face-to-face meeting. They have to have something like what we're having now, a meeting online. If they have reached a decision, it could be announced. If they do have such a meeting, it would be very positive.

崔大使：谢谢您的提问。根据最初的计划，双方团队将在第一阶段经贸协议开始执行后的六个月内开会，我想双方团队仍在进行协商。但是他们可能无法面对面开会，不得不像我们现在这样举行网络视频会议。我想如果他们做出决定，就会对外宣布。如果他们确实能举行这样的会议，那将是非常积极的。

Question: Hello, Ambassador. Thank you so much for a very kind and informative conversation. It's conversations like this that will hopefully bring our countries back together to be the friends that we want to be for a very long time. I personally feel that China is just going to the thousands of years where China was an equal in the world community. What do you feel the symbolic things America and China could be doing to get our relationship back to where it was not too long ago? And let's remember during the 2008 financial crisis, it was China that spent an enormous amount of money that helped the entire world financially. What do you feel that we should be doing to help right the ship of good relations with the two most powerful countries in the world? Thank you.

观众四：大使您好！非常感谢您非常友好、富有内容的谈话。正是这样的谈话才有希望使两国重新走到一起、成为朋友，像我们长期以来希望的那样。我个人感到，中国只是正在回到几千年来作为国际社会平等成员的状态。您认为美中两国可以做哪些象征性事情，以便使我们的关系回到不久之前的状况？我们应该记住，在2008年金融危机期间，正是中国花费了巨额资金为全世界经济提供了支撑。您认为我们应该怎么做才能帮助世界上两个最强大的国家扶正良好关系的大船？谢谢。

Ambassador Cui: Thank you very much. Thank you for your very encouraging words. And I do share your hope. I totally share your hope. You are right. If we look at the three major international crises since the beginning of the century, the 911 terrorist attack, the international financial crisis, and now the pandemic. It's quite clear the global challenges we are faced with today are global in nature. And they require global cooperation, and especially cooperation between our two great countries. Otherwise, none of us will be able to really solve these issues, to overcome such difficulties, and really make our future much better. We are also working together on many of the international, regional issues, from the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula to the Iranian nuclear issue, from Afghanistan to the Middle East. All these issues also require multilateral collaboration and cooperation between our two countries.

崔大使：非常感谢您鼓舞人心的评论，我与您怀有完全同样的希望。如果我们看一下本世纪初以来的三大国际危机，即“9•11”恐怖袭击、国际金融危机以及现在的疫情，很显然，我们今天面临的全球挑战是真正全球性的，需要全球合作加以应对，特别是需要我们两个伟大国家之间的合作。否则，我们谁也无法真正解决这些问题、克服这些困难，真正使我们的未来变得更加美好。中美在许多国际和地区问题上保持着合作，从朝鲜半岛核问题到伊朗核问题，从阿富汗到中东。解决所有这些问题需要我们两国开展双边以及多边合作。

A very good example would be what we just talked about - climate change. Another example will be the current pandemic. I don't think any country can really handle this pandemic all by itself. Of course, we are faced with somehow different situations in various countries, because conditions vary in different countries. But still, I don't think any country can say, I'm 100% safe from the pandemic while other countries are still struggling. We have to help each other. We have to make sure that the pandemic is contained and hopefully overcome, effective vaccine is developed, effective medicines are developed, and lives are saved. People can have a better assurance for their health. And this has to be done by the entire international community. And hopefully our two countries can really take the lead in this.

一个很好的例子就是我们刚才谈到的气候变化，另一个例子是当前的疫情。没有任何国家能真正独自应对这次疫情。当然，由于各国情况不同，疫情形势也有区别。尽管如此，在其他国家仍在挣扎的情况下，没有哪个国家可以百分之百地感到安全。我们必须互相帮助，必须确保遏制并最终战胜疫情，开发出有效的疫苗、有效的药物，以挽救生命，使人们可以更好地保障自己的健康。这必须由整个国际社会来完成。希望我们两国能够真正作出表率。

Andrea Mitchell: Mr. Ambassador, I know Nick Burns is going to ask you the final question. But I just want to say, I want to thank you for making yourself available. It's a very important forum, the Aspen Security Forum.

米歇尔：大使先生，我知道尼克•伯恩斯将问您最后一个问题。我只想说，感谢您参加论坛，阿斯彭安全论坛是一个非常重要的论坛。

Ambassador Cui: I think you have asked very good questions. Thank you very much.

崔大使：非常感谢您，您提了非常好的问题。

Nicholas Burns: Andrea, thank you very much. Ambassador, thank you for the interview. Ambassador, I wanted to ask one final question if Andrea would permit. Maybe Andrea could be the umpire. The Ambassador and I met in Grand Rapids, Michigan 18 months ago. We spoke at a conference in front of 500 business people to mark the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the US-China relationship by Jimmy Carter and Deng Xiaoping. There was a little bit of celebratory mood then that the United States and China had done a lot, accomplished a lot together.

伯恩斯：安德利亚，非常感谢你。谢谢大使先生接受访谈。我想问最后一个问题，18个月前，我和大使先生在密歇根州大急流市见面。我们在500名商界人士参加的会议上进行对话，以纪念吉米•卡特总统和邓小平先生推动美中建交40周年。美国和中国一起做了很多事，取得很多成就，会议有一些庆祝的气氛。

But Ambassador, the mood is shifted quite dramatically in the United States. There is widespread disappointment, I would say, even anger in the United States about China's actions, anti-democratic actions to snuff out the democracy in Hong Kong. There is a sense that in the South China Sea, the People's Liberation Army moving out against both the Philippines and Vietnam, acting illegally, and the extravagant legal claim that China has. Widespread opposition to what's happened in the PLA assertive against India on the very long border in the Himalayas. And Andrea asked you a question about the Uyghurs. In this country, there's a lot of evidence. And we believe that the Uyghur population, maybe up to as many as one million people, have been subjugated unfairly and treated unfairly. So I want to say to you, and we've known each other a very long time, the views are hardening here in the United States. And I would even say that most Democrats and most Republicans are united in the belief that China has been too aggressive in the Indo-Pacific, and that we may be at a fundamental turning point towards competition.

但是，大使先生，现在美国国内的情绪发生了巨大变化。美国国内对中国在香港的反民主行为普遍感到失望甚至愤怒。人们感觉，中国人民解放军在南海正对菲律宾和越南采取非法行动，推进过分的法律主张。人们普遍反对解放军在喜马拉雅山漫长的边界上对印度的行为。刚才安德利亚也问了您有关维吾尔人的问题。在这个国家，有很多证据使我们相信，可能多达一百万的维吾尔族人受到了不公正的压迫和不公正的待遇。我和大使先生已经认识很久了，我想对您说，在美国，观点正在趋于强硬。甚至大多数民主党人和共和党人一致认为，中国在印太地区太有侵略性，我们可能正处于转向竞争的根本转折点。

So my question to you is, is there a recognition in Beijing of the very tough-minded attitudes here, negative attitudes here with the United States towards China, towards the government in Beijing, by both of our political parties and nearly all of our leaders? And what can Beijing do to allay that concern? Because this is part of what diplomacy is. Right now, we are not seeing much conciliation at all from the Chinese government.

所以我的问题是，北京是否意识到这里非常强硬的态度？是否意识到美国两党和几乎所有领导人都对中国和北京政府持负面看法？北京能做些什么来缓解这种关切？因为这是外交的一部分。目前，我们根本没有看到中国政府有什么和解的表示。

Ambassador Cui: Nick, when you were talking, I somehow thought you were still the spokesperson for the State Department. Andrea and I, we touched upon many of the issues you just mentioned. We have a limited time. I don't want to repeat everything. But let me say this to you. The Chinese people are also very much shocked, they feel very disappointed about what is happening in this country towards China. There's a rising anger among the Chinese public. People have to be aware of this. You are asking us what we can do to make the relations better. And people in China are asking what the United States can do to make the relations better. For many of the issues, sometimes I just don't understand why misconceptions could continue and even spread.

崔大使：刚才安德利亚和我谈到了你刚才提及的许多问题。我知道时间有限，不想全部重复一遍，但我想告诉你的是，中国人民也感到非常震惊，他们对美国对中国的所作所为感到非常失望，中国公众的愤怒正在持续上升。这里的人们必须意识到这一点。你问中方能做什么以改善中美关系。中国人民也在问，美国能做什么以改善中美关系。在许多问题上，有时我不明白为什么误解会持续甚至蔓延开来。

I myself was involved in dealing with many of the issues in Asia. I know China and all our neighbors just want to have normal, stable, friendly and mutually beneficial relations. We do have disputes, like the border disputes with India, and some territorial disputes in the South China Sea. But on the whole, all the countries in our region want to develop mutually beneficial relations. I don't think any one of them want to see any escalation of tension. This is also the reality. So, I have full confidence that between China and our neighbors, we will be able to solve any problem through friendly and peaceful negotiation without external interference, without external attempt to escalate the situation. For instance, China is surrounded on the land by 14 other countries. That means we have land borders with 14 countries. And out of the 14 countries, we have already solved the border issues and concluded treaties with 12 of them. India and Bhutan are the only two left. Maybe we are not able to solve the border issue in the short while. But I don't think this issue should dominate relations between China and India. And I think our Indian friends would share my view.

我本人亲身参与过亚洲许多问题的处理过程。中国和我们的所有邻国只想建立正常、稳定、友好和互利的关系。我们的确有争议，比如与印度的边界争议以及在南海的领土争议。但总的来说，我们地区的所有国家都希望发展互利关系。他们当中谁都不想看到紧张局势升级。因此我完全有信心，在没有外部干预和外部企图使局势升级的情况下，中国和我们的邻国能够通过友好、和平谈判解决任何问题。例如，中国有14个陆上邻国，这意味着，我们与14个国家有陆地边界。在这14个国家中，我们已经与12个国家解决了边界问题、缔结了条约，仅剩印度和不丹。也许我们无法在短期内解决边界问题，但这个问题不应该主导中印关系。我认为，我们的印度朋友也不愿意这样。

So hopefully our American friends could have a really better understanding of the realities in our region, could really understand our concern, our perception, and what we need, what the people in the region really need, and could refrain from taking any action to take advantage of any disputes in the region or even escalate the situation.

因此，希望我们的美国朋友能够真正更好地理解我们地区的现实情况，真正理解我们的关切、看法以及诉求，知道地区人民真正需要什么，并避免采取旨在借该地区任何争议渔利的任何行动，甚至升级局势。

The real problem for America, I want to be very honest and frank with all of you, the real question for America is: Is the United States ready to live with another country with a different history, different culture, different system, but with no intention to compete for global dominance with the United States? Are you ready to live with us in peace? This is the fundamental question. Hopefully, politicians, diplomats, journalists, scholars here could think about this really seriously.

我想对大家坦诚地讲，对美国来说真正的问题是：美国是否准备好与另一个具有不同历史、文化和制度，但无意与美国争夺全球主导地位的国家共处？你们是否准备好与我们和平共处？这是根本性问题。我希望，政界人士、外交官、记者和学者能够真正严肃认真地思考这个问题。

Andrea Mitchell: Thank you again. I think Nick correctly points out that there is political agreement among Democrats and Republicans on few things in the US right now. But suspicion and antagonism towards China is one of them. So we, both of our countries have our work cut out for us to try to overcome those disagreements.

米歇尔：再次感谢您。我认为，尼克正确地指出了一点，即目前美国的民主党和共和党很少有事情能达成政治共识，但对中国的疑虑和敌对是其中之一。因此，我们两国都有工作要做，以克服那些分歧。

Ambassador Cui: That I agree. We will have both sides, both of us have to work harder to overcome the current difficulties, to try to solve, to dispel such suspicion, doubts, or even fear. We have to build a constructive and mutually beneficial relationship for the future.

崔大使：我们双方都需要更加努力工作，以克服当前困难，尝试解决、消除这种疑虑甚至恐惧。我们必须面向未来建立建设性和互利关系。

Andrea Mitchell: Can all agree with that aspiration. Thank you so much.

米歇尔：这是所有人的共同愿望。非常感谢。

Ambassador Cui: Thank you.

崔大使：谢谢。

译匠编辑，本文中英文来源：中国驻美大使馆官网。